york city like detroit. we're not detroit. but with actions like this and with actions like the city council where they just recently passed a law that says individuals can actually sue policemen individually, not corporately, it's really unfortunate. >> gretchen: it's interesting to see when you have the police commissioner, ray kelly and the mayor agreeing so strongly on this particular issue, 'cause they don't agree on everything, to see them come out and be so upset about this must say something about the way in which they've been conducting business for the last decade. i just want you to look at the stats. here is new york city crime stats. 2012-2013, murder down 27.5%. murder down, shooting incidents down, 28.6%. so joe, how do you expect that to change when officers can no longer stop and frisk? >> well, officers can still stop and frisk, but they're going to be handcuffed in how they do it. the judge basically thinks and without any credible evidence that police officers are stopping people for -- without having any suspicious activity, when in fact, that's been not proven.